DUST Search - The evolution of Dust 514 into Legion needs to involve the community

InsidiousN wrote:

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

And the discussion of such needs to start right now.

You guys said over and over again that there is only one CCP. If you want us to believe that, then follow the example of the Reykjavik team and open the discussion right now.

Something this big would be the topic of months of blogs and many requests for community feedback. That method of development is what has made EVE as strong as it is today, far stronger than it was even 3 years ago.

The anger about the reveal comes primarily from having been completely blindsided by this. You told us last year that you were going to make a change to involve the community more in the development process, but this reveal makes it look like you gave up on that before you even got started.

As bad as the PR side of this went at FanFest, you all can start repairing that right now by opening up what you're working on and letting us see it and provide feedback like the EVE players do for the EVE Dev team.

What we want is to be treated like we matter.

I completely agree with you, however, we have reached the stage where there is no point in trying to reason with anyone at CCP anymore.


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Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5113	Posted - 2014.05.03 03:18:00 - [1] - Quote And the discussion of such needs to start right now. You guys said over and over again that there is only one CCP. If you want us to believe that, then follow the example of the Reykjavik team and open the discussion right now. Something this big would be the topic of months of blogs and many requests for community feedback. That method of development is what has made EVE as strong as it is today, far stronger than it was even 3 years ago. The anger about the reveal comes primarily from having been completely blindsided by this. You told us last year that you were going to make a change to involve the community more in the development process, but this reveal makes it look like you gave up on that before you even got started. As bad as the PR side of this went at FanFest, you all can start repairing that right now by opening up what you're working on and letting us see it and provide feedback like the EVE players do for the EVE Dev team. What we want is to be treated like we matter. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5113	Posted - 2014.05.03 03:24:00 - [2] - Quote InsidiousN wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: And the discussion of such needs to start right now. You guys said over and over again that there is only one CCP. If you want us to believe that, then follow the example of the Reykjavik team and open the discussion right now. Something this big would be the topic of months of blogs and many requests for community feedback. That method of development is what has made EVE as strong as it is today, far stronger than it was even 3 years ago. The anger about the reveal comes primarily from having been completely blindsided by this. You told us last year that you were going to make a change to involve the community more in the development process, but this reveal makes it look like you gave up on that before you even got started. As bad as the PR side of this went at FanFest, you all can start repairing that right now by opening up what you're working on and letting us see it and provide feedback like the EVE players do for the EVE Dev team. What we want is to be treated like we matter. I completely agree with you, however, we have reached the stage where there is no point in trying to reason with anyone at CCP anymore. People said that about CCP back in 2011, but the people who didn't give up, the people who stuck around and toughed it out, were the ones that got CCP back on the right track and the game back on the upward swing again. Let's be those people. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5113	Posted - 2014.05.03 03:33:00 - [3] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: CCP doesn't read the forums, except for the posts regarding their crappy events. It's too late for CCP to GAF about what we say. I stood up for them when people would say, "oh dust is dead lul" but then they went off and abandoned us for a new platform, and cut off development of what is know was DUST 514. You know what makes me angry? I know for a fact CCP will make the exact same mistakes as last time, cause they don't play their own game! They hardly ever listen to the community. Who ever wanted a full vehicle revamp? I don't recall ANYONE suggesting that. Doesn't matter either way, dead game is dead. Not by CCP's hand, but by ours, cause that is what it deserves. A full vehicle revamp was actually a hotly debated topic for quite some time. Also, as I said in another thread, we've been doing the rage thing all day. I think it's about time to start being constructive. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5114	Posted - 2014.05.03 03:42:00 - [4] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: I think it's about time to start being constructive. Hakyou Brutor wrote: CCP doesn't read the forums, except for the posts regarding their crappy events Given how much random forum stuff is reported as being mentioned by the CPM members I talk to whenever they do their conferences, this is a gross misconception. The problem is that very few of the developers want to post here because they think they'll get jumped on no matter what they say, apparently. I'm sure it hasn't escaped them that that is somewhat their own faults. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5116	Posted - 2014.05.03 03:57:00 - [5] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: Cotsy wrote: M+¦bius, This is not way meant to be insulting to your suggestion. Dust 514 community is a beta test for a legion, that is how we are going to be "involved" in this process. We play (or quit) we QQ and CCP does nothing but take notes for Legion. Yup, thats how our relationship is and will be until dust becomes empty or legion is closed bets released. Dust shouldn't help CCP anymore, we need to stop making suggestions on forums and let legion fail miserably. This is basically what I was trying to say. Sorry if I sounded rude. Just a bit angry at CCP atm. I see where you two are coming from. We're basically in the position of guinea pigs now, from what we can glean from their admittedly bad information stream so far. Honestly, I'm hoping Sabrewing manages to convince Rouge and Praetorian to talk about this during CCP Presents! tomorrow. They need to start addressing this soon if they want any chance of picking up the pieces. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5118	Posted - 2014.05.03 04:09:00 - [6] - Quote Kierkegaard Soren wrote: M+¦bius, let's assume that the CPM isn't completely inert and have known either in part or in full of what was coming; they MUST habe told CCP how badly this was going to go down, so why didn't they listen? Rouge acts like he's doing us a favour, letting us in on Legion earlier than he should do. Which is crazy. You don't just trash 2 years of development and community with a twenty-five minute keynote that talks about a game you haven't even made yet and NOT expect that community to walk away. Frankly, I don't want to be constructive. I want to be destructive. Aim to misbehave and what-not. CPM pretty much confirmed having spent almost 7 months trying to get CCP to tell us this sooner. The fact that all the info I've been getting throughout the day has been coming from Round Tables that weren't streamed is emblematic of them not thinking this through at all. In fact, my friends at FanFest said that a last-minute Round Table was put together immediately after the Keynote once the negative feedback started rolling in to try and address it. Again, all anyone who hasn't been plugged in all day got was the Keynote saying the game was going to be on PC now. All this other info might as well not exist because they've done nothing to publish it. It's all coming from players currently attending the convention instead of from CCP like it should. Also, fistbump for the Firefly quote. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5119	Posted - 2014.05.03 04:14:00 - [7] - Quote Cotsy wrote: Mob, Go to digital spy gaming news, see their dust 514 article. CCP confirms there will be no more updates for dust. Answers every question you have. This has since been cleared up as no MAJOR content updates for Dust. They're going to put new things in, but they'll all be small. I doubt we'll see anything bigger than new guns and vehicles, and maybe new suits. Basically, the gameplay and mechanics will remain the same, and assets will be added. This is information obtained from talks with CCP that my friends have quoted to me after those articles were posted. Phazoid wrote: hey mobius, i know for a fact and cause your name is pretty obvious that you going to be on ace combat infinity, so add me on psn: Nightphazon, im looking for dusters to play with in the skies I will make sure to add you, Phazoid. Always good to find more people to fly with! Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5122	Posted - 2014.05.03 04:32:00 - [8] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Kierkegaard Soren wrote: M+¦bius, let's assume that the CPM isn't completely inert and have known either in part or in full of what was coming; they MUST habe told CCP how badly this was going to go down, so why didn't they listen? Rouge acts like he's doing us a favour, letting us in on Legion earlier than he should do. Which is crazy. You don't just trash 2 years of development and community with a twenty-five minute keynote that talks about a game you haven't even made yet and NOT expect that community to walk away. Frankly, I don't want to be constructive. I want to be destructive. Aim to misbehave and what-not. so far only one CPM has discussed this today. IWS and he is on board with ccp. I've been talking to 3 of the others via Skype. IWS is univerasally agreed to be horrible at PR. I've played with the guy in game, and spent many an hour chatting with him, and he's a pretty nice guy. Public relations is not his strong suit, however, as is pretty damn obvious to everyone. Also, More Sand in the Box for Dust 514 is tomorrow morning at 0900 EST. For those of you who probably won't be waking up early for more possible Dust letdowns, I'll be getting up to watch it and updating this thread with anything I see. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5122	Posted - 2014.05.03 04:55:00 - [9] - Quote Cotsy wrote: Digital spy already quoted CCP - it's over. Read the quotes, read the article. What part of after the article do you not understand? You do realize that in order to facilitate being present at the convention, such interviews were done at least a day before they are released? That's actually pretty standard both in print media and in video media. You can the interview ahead of time to give you a chance to set up a block for it and edit the text if necessary. Why do you think you see those words in brackets to cover gaps in consistency when you read them in magazines? Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5129	Posted - 2014.05.03 05:57:00 - [10] - Quote Quote: Although DUST 514 and Project Legion will function independently of one another, and are different projects on different development paths, DUST itself has a lot more shooting-in-the-face action to come. The team and I remain committed to continuing to improve the experience on PlayStation 3, while simultaneously making sure GÇ£Project LegionGÇ¥ becomes the experience weGÇÖve all dreamt of. The journey continues. CCP Rouge Executive Producer - DUST 514 / Project Legion Quoted from the recent DevBlog. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector

Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5130	Posted - 2014.05.03 06:14:00 - [11] - Quote RIPNTEAR401 wrote: Cotsy wrote: Mob, Go to digital spy gaming news, see their dust 514 article. CCP confirms there will be no more updates for dust. Answers every question you have. lol, I read the article. It said that CCP Shanghai will be developing Legion. That pretty much sums it there. Glad I'm done. Did you look at my last post? From the DevBlog currently up? Did you also notice how I pointed out the industry-wide practice of doing such interviews a day or more before they are actually released? The information we have been given today is more relevant than those interviews from several days ago that have just been uploaded today so as to be timed with the announcement. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5130	Posted - 2014.05.03 06:28:00 - [12] - Quote LEHON Xeon wrote: Well Mobius, I regard you as a fairly sharp guy from the times we've talked in the corp chat like this morning. How and why would I ever sit and want to or even be able to believe anything from a company who purposefully lied about a game's future in order to temporarily increase AUR sales which will benefit absolutely no one who purchased them? It's like I've said under other posts. To me, CCP is exactly like Enron. Instead of hiding losses offshore, they hid the basic shutdown of Dust for several months. Then they still told people that everything for Dust 514 was going great and they were committed to it just like always (Enron did that by continuing its false "blue chip" stock appearance). Then like Enron did with telling people to buy stocks, they actively encouraged people this last month and a half to buy more boosters and other things, even though Dust 514 was basically taking a developmental tank and they were already well at work on Legion with no intention of continuing Dust. What exactly do you call that? This is why the CPM told CCP not to wait to announce this. I think we can all agree that if they said as soon as they started thinking about this that this is what they were headed towards, we would have been irritated, but we would have eventually gotten on board as more information was given to us, particularly about how they want to go to next-gen consoles once the game is stable on PC. Instead, we're blindsided with this info at what we thought would be a talk about Dust, and aren't even given a chance to ask any questions before it's over. This was not a scam, this is not Enron. We're all upset, but this is not some evil plot. This is CCP once again doing a ****** job of public relations, nothing more. I mean, half the people saying CCP can't even find their way out of a cardboard box with directions are the same ones claiming a nefarious plot to farm us for money and then dump us. That's rather logically inconsistent. Remember that these are people with a sense of morality the same as any other person, and despite the major mistakes they've made, at the end of the day they are people, not monsters bent on destroying everything we love. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5137	Posted - 2014.05.03 12:56:00 - [13] - Quote Just a few minutes until "More Sand in the Box for Dust 514". We'll find out if they'll actually be talking about Dust 514 or if they'll just be talking about Legion again. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5138	Posted - 2014.05.03 13:47:00 - [14] - Quote A'Real Fury wrote: sorry mate but it will be a different community who will support Eve Legion. let them do the play testing and give advice and suggestions. That's crap. If we just sit silent and do nothing, what you said is exactly what will happen. As long as these forums are here, we need to keep pushing at CCP. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5139	Posted - 2014.05.03 13:50:00 - [15] - Quote Quick update: CCP Praetorian, when asked about updates to Dust, replied that we should "give them a few weeks" in order to determine where they want to go with the game. Not sure if that would have been my answer, but he also alluded to how strongly they're trying to be vague about everything, so at least he seems to realize how frustrating that is. Also, shout out to Zatara for asking the question. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mobius Wyvern Ahrendee Mercenaries Dirt Nap Squad. 5141	Posted - 2014.05.03 17:31:00 - [16] - Quote Upgrades to current game mechanics and character migration have both been confirmed. Also, Project Legion has not been "green lit" by Hilmar. It isn't even a confirmed project. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector